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A conversation with
Dr. Avis Glaze
Monday November 18, 2002 Roderick Benns
Stephen Lewis spoke at the recent Peaceful Communities forum and delivered
his top points for creating a peaceful community. Roderick Benns and Michelle
Strutzenberger investigate those topics further through a multi-faceted
series on each point. Recently, Roderick Benns sat down with Dr. Avis
Glaze, director of education for the Kawartha Pine Ridge District School
Board, and talked about racism and intolerance.
Peaceful Communities: You grew up in Jamaica, and taught in
the secondary school system there. What challenges were present there,
with regard to racism and intolerance, and what stays with you today from
that experience?
 Dr
Glaze: I wasn't as conscious of racism where I grew up. I was aware
of what was happening in other countries and upset about apartheid in
South Africa.
When I was about 11 or 12 I first discovered that wonderful quote [by
Martin Niemoller] "In Germany, they first came for the communists,
and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a communist. Then they came for
the Jews, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a Jew. Then they came
for the trade unionists, and I didn't speak up because I wasn't a trade
unionist. Then they came for the Catholics and I didn't speak up because
I wasn't a Catholic. Then they came for me -- and by that time there was
nobody left to speak up."
At a young age that really touched me.
So what is our role in life? How do we empathize with others? What is
our role in looking after others?
I grew up with a religious context, attending church, and I always reflected
on those teachings - I was a very reflective young girl.
I pondered the questions of what to do, of what I wanted my life to be
about. Most important to me, was how would I affirm and bring out the
humanity of others?
I have been really appreciative of what Canadian society stands for -
peace, fairness, justice. And I remember thinking many times, if Canada
is one of the best places in the world to live, what must we do as Canadians
to ensure it stays that way?
If we have a human rights code that affirms our equality, we have to be
vigilant - all of us - in protecting it. But empathy is so important.
If we can't empathize with people who are disabled, for instance, we are
not practising empathy.
Peaceful Communities: What was your experience like when you
first arrived in Canada and began going to school here? Did you encounter
racism during those academic years?
Dr Glaze: I was 26 when I first came to Canada - I was already
a teacher in Jamaica when I arrived in Toronto. I certainly did not think
I was staying.
When someone would ask me if I was staying the answer was always 'never.'
I didn't like the winters. I did my degrees in four and a half years.
[Dr. Glaze studied at the Ontario Institute for Studies in Education where
she completed a doctorate in education and two masters programs, one in
educational administration and the other in guidance and counselling.]
I went back to Jamaica for a while, but not for very long. My friends
had left there. I realized, in fact, that my friends were in Canada.
That my life was here now.
But suddenly, real issues of race were brought to the forefront for me
when I came here. I must say, the vast majority of the people I encountered
were absolutely wonderful. But I had my share of negative experiences.
This would be in the late 1970s and early 1980s.
I remember a friend and I being chased one night on campus by someone
who was shouting something to the effect of "niggers get out of here,
go home." I remember walking into a lady's dress shop and the woman
in charge almost meeting me at the door and saying "there are no
sales here!" But these were the exceptions, let me emphasize.
The majority of people in any nation are not racist. In this community,
in Peterborough, I have not had one single negative experience. I have
been so impressed with this community. But we must not think that these
things never happen in our country.
Peaceful Communities: Why did you come to Peterborough?
Dr Glaze: This is a great, great school district. The challenge
to improve schools' achievements is there, but we have this wonderful
cadre of people here. They are hard working and dedicated.
Where I come from, in York Region, we were number one in many different
areas, achievement wise. I know we can be in that top five per cent here,
too.
Peaceful Communities: You were a part of the Royal Commission on
Learning in 1995 - one of only five commissioners on the panel. What was
the contribution of this report, and how do you feel about it seven years
later?
Dr Glaze: That was a role I cherish. I was the only educator on
the panel. Seven years later, people don't realize the impact that report
had on education in Ontario.
Bringing in community service, the teacher advisory program, the integration
of community and schools, the establishment of the College of Teaching,
the Education Quality and Accountability Office...all these things and
much more came out of the Royal Commission on Learning.
The number one disappointment I have is that the recommendation on establishing
early childhood education was not done. That is so important to me, so
important to others.
Peaceful Communities: In 1986 you co-authored Towards Freedom:
The African-Canadian Experience. What was the genesis of this book?
Dr Glaze: This book is used in the school system. Ken Alexander
- a teacher in Peel Region - and I felt it was important to write something
on black history in Canada, because there was just so little on the African-Canadian
experience. When we study history, it should be a compendium of all human
achievements -- it must include all groups.
Children need to see role models. There was a time when young women, young
girls, felt they didn't have any role models. Today, I think young blacks
are floundering in many cases in terms of grasping for role models. The
book was an effort to tell a story that really wasn't well-known.
Peaceful Communities: If children are having open discussions
in classrooms on the topic of racism, as Stephen Lewis suggests should
happen, are we prepared for the impending openness of that discussion?
How are we prepared on an individual instructor level and as a student
group, for the potential articulation of racism to be expressed openly?
Dr Glaze: There is no doubt we must do this. We must talk about
it openly. I know KPR has in the past done a lot of work on eliminating
racism. We must have knowledge and a comfort level with these issues.
We need not be afraid of discussing differences.
There are social class issues - poverty is an issue under this umbrella,
too, not just race, as are other things that make us different from one
another.
When I see how children relate to differences, I think we will be just
fine as a society.
When they have had the opportunity to experience differences, the positive
interaction decreases prejudice. In schools, we need to have these discussions
- these interactions help. Children need to interact across cultures.
When people say to me, 'Avis, we don't need that in our community, we're
all white or we're all black,' I say, no, that's why you do need it. It
is a measurable skill, having inter-cultural experiences. It will help
our children of the future.
Are we preparing them for that world?
Are we preparing them for the increasing diversity that will certainly
occur out there?
Peaceful Communities: Policy at the board level has, for some
time, spoken out against racism. But since you arrived here with your
own policy ideas, how has that approach changed, if at all?
Dr Glaze: One of the things I will be doing is a lot more work
on human rights issues. I am concerned about boys at this time.
Girls are excelling across the board now. Just as I was concerned about
the future of young girls years before, when they didn't seem to have
good role models, now I am concerned for the boys.
Even in the maths and sciences girls are doing better. In literature as
well. So I am concerned about gender issues too.
How are we going to bring more male teachers into the system, especially
for the younger grades?
Once, when I was visiting an elementary school here in Peterborough, every
single teacher, even the caretaker, was female.
So where are the role models for young boys?
If we are human rights advocates, we must embrace this gender issue, as
well as race issues. I really, really want us to find more elementary
school teachers who are male.
I want us to focus a lot of our professional development on human rights
issues, whether that be race, gender, physical abilities, etc.
Wilfrid Laurier talks about this. He said "I say it is to our glory
that the struggles of race are ended on Canadian soil. Mighty nations,
indeed, might well come to us to seek a lesson in justice and humanity."
It was Martin Luther King who said "there can be no peace without
justice." They are inextricably intertwined.
We should be a model for the world. I am so passionate about these issues.
But yes, if we want peace we must confront our human rights issues.
Peaceful Communities: Will you retire here, in this position?
Dr Glaze: I am very happy here. I like this board very much. The
dedication and commitment here are extraordinary.
I think it is because of the support and good will in this community that
I plan to stay.
In my apartment building, people are so good to me. They pick up my paper,
they watch out for me. I am finding this incredible support here.
Peaceful Communities: What will be the mark of Avis Glaze here?
Dr Glaze: I want student achievement to soar under my leadership.
I want students to be in the top five per cent.
Realistically, it may take five to seven years.
I want there to be a higher degree of staff satisfaction, based on a higher
degree of professional development and fair treatment for everyone.
I want parents and the community to feel they have a meaningful involvement
in the education of their children.
And when all is said and done, I want it to be said that we got there
as a team.
Peaceful Communities: Thank you so much for your thoughts today.
Dr Glaze: It has been my pleasure.
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